Sudden Catastrophic Battery Failure, Or Something Else?

[Wibbly]

Car started properly and I went on the weekly shopping trip (2 mile journey). On the way back car started fine too. Then whilst driving I get

 

- Three(?) long beeps from the instrument panel

- Seat belt and ABS lights come on

- Rev counter and speedo freeze at their current readings

 

I get home. Turn off engine. Instrument panel warnings go and speedo and rev counter fall to zero (as expected).

 

Now engine barely turns over, as if battery is VERY flat. (Starter was replaced a few months ago)

 

Sudden battery failure when driving? Can this happen? Something else?

 

Battery terminals look ok...

 

Help!

[mumof4]

alternator i think..as when mine went all warning lights came on and rev and speedo went.

 

only a suggestion tho

 

check your main fuse feed box for melting..

 

i do think alt not battery

[Wibbly]

i do think alt not battery

 

Could be, but why would it not start now? Battery was good enough for it to start 2 miles ago...

Edited April 28, 2007 by Wibbly

[mumof4]

because the battery would have been running on the charge left in it..if the alt goes it cant charge the battery...then the battery just runs on what is left in it..once that has gone..battery dead.

[mumof4]

what is your make and model?

[mumof4]

also..2 miles is not far enough to charge the battery..IIRC..

 

all this is just my opinion.I would get the battery and the alt checked.

[Wibbly]

Yeah. 2.3 LX. My point is that 2 miles also now enough time flatten battery if car started fine 2 miles ago...

[Wibbly]

Ok, so I left it for an hour or so over lunch. It just started. Just. Batteries don't recharge spontaneosly. I drove it for 5 miles or so. Tried to restart it. Turned over and started NORMALLY.

 

So what gives??!? Bad connection somewhere?

[mumof4]

Hmm..could be.....i dont know to be honest as i really dont know about that end of the engine..

 

i would check all connections..are the battery terminals clean and free of crap?are the thingies on tight enough?..

[richyrich]

I had similar problem a few years ago, basically you may have a short inside the battery that has now gone., and things seem okay. Mine was enough to drop the voltage enough for the alternator to push out it's maximum power(over 150 amps with mine) and it melted/damaged the fuse holder in the engine compartment. With the engine not running the battery should read anywhere between 12 - 13volts, with the engine running it should be around 13.2 volts or more so that the battery will charge. Battery life is normally 5 years but there is no guarantee, mine was only 3 years old

[richyrich]

Meant to say that the short circuit inside is caused by deposits building up inside on the bottom of the battery and shorting out some of the plates. They are probably burnt away now so everything seems ok. If I am right this will happen again. Have a look through the holes if you can and see if the plates are distorted. It just sounds so much like my problem that I wouldn't want you to have a problem again whilst miles away from home!

be interesting to see your reply

[Andrew T]

The original equipment Calcium batteries on the MK2 Galaxy have caused a lot of problems and if you get 5 years out of one you're doing well. I'm on my third now having had the last one replaced under warranty. The problem I found was that although mine tested OK, it wouldn't start the car after standing for a day. The supplier denied there was any problem with it but having changed it out of goodwill (actualy he was pretty grumpy about it) I've not had another problem.

If you test the voltage with the engine running and the headlights on mine shows 14-14.2 V. I think if it's only 13 you 're looking at a charging problem.

As Mum says check the main fuse for the Alternator (under the battery cover by the washer bottle neck) which is a reasonably common trouble spot.

[Andrew T]

I copied this from a very old post, this shows the state of the Ca battery with the engine off.

 

at 12.6 volts the battery is 100 per cent charged

at 12.4 volts, the battery is 75 per cent charged

at 12.2 volts, the battery is 50 per cent charged

at 12.0 volts, the battery is 25 per cent charged

[mumof4]

Had my Ca battery on for oooo...nearly 4 yrs now..only went flat once at the stonehenge meet..was jumped and been fine ever since.

[Wibbly]

My car's Y reg and never had a new battery. Maybe I should just replace it now anyway, as it must be ~ 6 years old... :-|

[mumof4]

well mine is X reg and its ooooo 6 yrs and 5 months old today!

[Wibbly]

According to Central Tyre's list my Galaxy wasn't fitted with a Calcium battery. Any way to check for sure?

 

Y reg 2.3 LX...

[mumof4]

have you not got a handbook?would say in there what battery should be fitted.

[Wibbly]

Doh! Statement of the Bleedin' Obvious.

 

Thanks. Will go check....

 

:D

Edited May 1, 2007 by Wibbly

[Smilge]

Wibbly .... sounds to me you have a duff battery. Is it a maintenance free type one? If it is and its gone flat then you need a specialist type charger to get it back up to be able to hold its charge. I've done a bit of research on this subject and to be honest, if it is a maintenance free type, then consider yourself lucky its lasted 6 years. The Ca type are similar when it comes to charging and again, the simple current chargers we all buy from Halfords or relying on the alternator to charge them from "flat", will never do the job properly. Get yourself a new battery and check the trickle charge voltage from your alternator once it's fitted. A good voltage is +13.8V.

[Wibbly]

Yeah maintenance free. Though looks like a garage nonetheless checked the acid levels one time when I asked the battery to be checked, as it looks like the seal on one cell has been breached. Also, just before the starter was replaced (which improved starting) they claimed the battery was fine and quite able to provide enough amps & volts for starting...

 

Need to check the battery type, and may well then replace it. It's never been allowed to go flat. When I had the problem Sunday it appeared to be flat, but recovered all by itself. Started the engine after lunch, not having been on a charger! Maybe it was one of those internal shorts that sorted itself for the moment.

 

My only nagging issue is if there's a bad earth/chassis connection that caused all this (and maybe even the poor starter performance before the starter was replaced). I can't see where the main chassis connection goes when it leaves the battery - disappears down the front nearside of the engine bay ahead of the battery. Can't see anything from below due to the wheel arch insert and front valence :-(

Edited May 1, 2007 by Wibbly

[Wibbly]

Ok....

 

- The existing battery is opaque (black plastic) so I can't see the state of the plates.

- The manual says use CA/PB battery only

- There are no indications on the battery (the original) it's a CA one. Model is Varta DE 1J0915105AC and there's a Pb marking on it.

 

No idea if I've a CA battery at the moment or if I should replace by one :-(

[mumof4]

a calcium battery will have Ca on it somewhere on the top.I have a blue Ca Varta one.

[Wibbly]

Yes, that's what the manual implied. This has no Ca on the label.

 

So safer to replace which what seems to have been fitted, or fit Ca? What happens if you use Ca when the car wasn't designed for it?

[richyrich]

I don't think it matters which one you fit. It's the AVR(automatic voltage regulator) in the alternator that regulates the voltage output of the alternator and this in turn decides the current going into the battery. The AVR will maintain the voltage of the electrics to 13.8volts ish (it does this by regulating the excitation on the coil of the rotor in the alternator). If the battery voltage is low then more current will flow through the battery so charging it.

Car's aren't designed for Pb or Ca, the alternator and battery are matched to the predicted use and load on them. When driving there should be no load on the battery - it's all on the alternator and the battery is being charged hopefully to full if the journey is long enough.

I work with UPS systems and generators and we have all sorts of different batteries, but the rule is CHANGE them when 5 years old - even the ones on our big generators( 6 off 750 Kva)